EPIRB - 406Mhz Emergency Beacon compare (PLB)

[Nicko]

There are 5 406Mhz Emergency Beacon manufacturers represented in Australia, GME Electrophone, Pains Wessex, KTi, ACR and Kannad. of those two are Australian, GME Electrophone and KTi. This review is for the PLB, Personal Locating Beacon and not the EPIRBs used in a boat, or rather attached to the boat. PLBs you have tied to your Life Jacket or if you wanted to, in your pocket.

The current 121.5/243 MHz a n a l o g u e COSPAS SARSAT service will be terminated in February 2009 and only the 406 MHz digital beacon signals will be processed thereafter. Consumers have for some time recognised the major benefits of a 406 MHz over a 121.5 MHz device in faster, more accurate detection, personal identification of each beacon, reduced search area resulting in a faster more targeted response in a life threatening situation. However the prohibitive cost of 406 MHz beacons has always been an issue.

I have a problem with buying anything that is not Australian, or at least buy Australian before I buy products from overseas. There is a hierarchy of course, but anything past New Zealand are thrown into the pot and decided upon from price, quality and support etc. In saying that the Australian manufacturers, based on this review, are not second to anyone, but world class leaders, however, you have to read this review to come to your own conclusion.

As I am not in the market to buy a unit and I am wanting to give an unbiased report on the models, thus expect me to be reasonable in my judgement.

If I was to buy a PLB (Personal Locator Beacon) I would buy it based on what it was designed to do, save my life. Based on this I would want to ensure a few things first, the battery won't be flat when I go to use it, it will last long enough for Search and Rescue to find me, and is not going to suffer from being lost.

You may ask, what do I mean by "being lost", well many of you know that over the years GPS technology has improved in particular sensitivity and tracking. The newer GPS engines (for example SiRF III & MTK32) are far more robust than their predecessors by a huge amount. Anyone who has any of the older handheld and newer handheld GPS will testify this.

The first thing I look at is the battery life, which ties in with warranty. First number represents battery life in years whilst second is warranty in years.

Battery Life
KTi 20/10
GME 7/7
Kannad 5/5
ACR ResQFix 10/5
Pains Wessex 5/5


The second thing I look for is if it has a GPS. The difference between a unit with or without a GPS is many many square kilometres. Some suggest a 2km radius without GPS and 100 metres with. I feel far more secure knowing that if I am injured or in freezing cold water the extra accuracy means extra quick location of my position, thus make it to the hospital in time. It is interesting the accuracies that they all quote, however, I suspect the KTi Mini-Sat-G 406Mhz PLB specification is no better than the others. There spec sheets states CEP50, which basically means 50% of the time you will be within the stated accuracy. No one in the GPS world really works on 50%, they typically look at 95% with a stated accuracy of typically 10 metres for a GPS engine. In any event I do see no obvious differences between them all, however, I do want to know what GPS engines are in all of them. Why? Well, even though you only need 3 satellites to get a position (4 if you want height as well) the older engines may have issues with various extreme environmental conditions such as satellite signal scatter, location in a canyon, in forested areas etc. I do not know which 16 channel engine GME are using but I suspect it is either a Nemerix or the Starfire from Navcom (John Deere company). Either way, they will have better specs than any 12 channel GPS engine typically in the vicinity of 25db which is a lot in real life terms. So, based on what I know the following data is prioritised correctly. The locating accuracy is limited by COSPAS-SARSAT system because they have not kept up with the times and maintain a GPS location accuracy within 124 metres (4 seconds of arc). Anything below 124 metres is a furphy.

GPS accuracy
KTi up to 1 metre* (16 channel GPS engine StarFire III) suspect same as all others of around 100 to 150m.
GME <100m (16 channel GPS engine)
Kannad <120m (12 Channel)
ACR <100m (12 Channel)
Pains Wessex <150m (12 Channel)

*Detection accuracy (CEP50).

The next issue is strobe, I love strobes because even though the unit may or may not have a GPS a strobe is an added cost effective feature that I can't go without. It is certainly mandatory with the none GPS unit but even so at night time with a 150 metre radius (GPS version) a chopper with a spotlight searching in rough seas at night still may struggle to locate you. A nice bright little strobe light blinking every 3 seconds is worth the extra few dollars.

Additional features
KTi both units have a strobe plus signalling mirror & retro reflector
GME both units have a strobe but no mirror/reflector
Kannard No strobe/mirror/reflector
ACR No strobe/mirror/reflector
Pains Wessex no strobe/mirror/reflector


User replaceable battery is a nice feature, however, not allowed in Australia. Only one of the manufacturers (Pains Wessex) quotes this but is quoted on the UK web site. Personally to me it's like packing your own parachute for the first time :eek

I don't know about you but one day of battery usage? Even though the Search & Rescue mob can take off from the base and pick you up within 24 hours, as KTi said, what happens if you are in the middle of a cyclone? Somehow my instincts tell me I won't be seeing that chopper for quite a while. As with the Kannad your battery will only last 24 hours or so, but you may have drifted well and truly away from the last reported signal.

Usage time is as follows:
KTi 4 days
GME 2 days
Pains Wessex 2 days
ACR min 1 day +
Kannad 1 day +

Size may not matter, depending upon where you have to put it. Clearly the KTi will best fit my pocket!

Dimensions:
KTi: 125mm x 84mm x 35mm
GME: 135mm x 71mm x 38mm
Kannad: 132mm x 88mm x 45mm
ACR: 149mm x 56mm x 36mm
Pains Wessex : 146mm x 79mm x 54mm


price is to me last on the list but Pains Wesse x did say their unit is to military specification MIL-STD-810 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810)

What the spec means is it is going to cost the manufacturer and thus the end user a lot more money for the privilege of having that MIL -spec on your product. Not to say it is an over the top requirement but certainly pushes the product above the others especially in price.

Following prices are RRP and for the GPS kitted version.
KTi $649
GME $699
Kannad $699
ACR: $699
Pains Wessex $1,099


Battery Replacement/Refurbish

GME Electrophone $175
KTI EPIRB $140 approx PLB $100 approx
Kannard $399
ACR EPIRB $370 approx SART $236 PLB no price as yet
Pains Wessex Free replacement after 5 before 10 years, after 10 years no price as yet.



Conclusion:

Well, sad fact of the matter is, although to me the KTi Mini-Sat-G 406Mhz PLB stands out against all others the model is not available until around August 2008 (pushed back to Jan 2010). So, if you need a unit between then and now quite clearly the GME Electrophone MT410G is the next in line.

What surprises me is the Kannad is dearer than either of the Australian products but is inferior to them as well. The 24 hour + battery life is a stinker and I would not even consider it a worthwhile investment on my life. Kannad is now distributed by Next Destination, the current Magellan Distributor for Australia.

Just a note, you must register the 406 MHz beacons as they are programmed with a unique identifying code which is transmitted by the beacon in an emergency. If you don't you can get fined.

After you purchase a 406 MHz beacon you MUST register this unique code with your local rescue co-ordination authority (see below for details) so that, if an emergency occurs and you need to activate your beacon, the authorities will have immediate access to your name, your emergency contacts and the type of vessel or craft you are in.

Click Here for the application form (http://www.amsa.gov.au/Forms/amsa6.pdf)

Australia
Forward your EPIRB registration to:

Beacon Registration Section, AusSAR
Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA)
GPO Box 2181
CANBERRA CITY, ACT 2601
Fax International: +61 2 6230 6868
Fax Local: 1800 622 153
Email: aus_beacon_query@amsa.gov.au
Phone International: +61 2 6230 6811
Phone Local: 1800 641 792

New Zealand
Forward your EPIRB registration to:

Rescue Co-ordination Centre New Zealand
PO Box 30050, Lower Hutt 6009
Fax: +64 4 914 8388
Email: 406registry@msa.govt.nz
Phone: +64 4 914 8383
AFTN: NZWNYCYX
Inmarsat-C: 582451200067

[RichardW]

Thanks for the comparison.
I'll wait for the KTi.

[Nicko]

Thanks, I will update the details as I get them in the first thread.

[Nicko]

ACR 406Mhz PLB EPIRBs are available and have added it to the first posting.

[mlenser]

Any news yet on when the KTi Mini-Sat-G 406Mhz PLB will be available and what the expected price will be?

Regards,
Mike.

[Nicko]

No pricing but spoke to them on Friday and got Mid December!

[bluezooky]

"After you purchase a 406 MHz beacon you MUST register this unique code with your local rescue co-ordination authority (see below for details) so that, if an emergency occurs and you need to activate your beacon, the authorities will have immediate access to your name, your emergency contacts and the type of vessel or craft you are in."

You may save a few dollars purchasing overseas but it's worthwhile noting the Australia authorities are unable to register overseas units due to their different coding, for an epirb it’s definitely worth buying the local product.

[RichardW]

Any news yet on when the KTi Mini-Sat-G 406Mhz PLB will be available and what the expected price will be?

Regards,
Mike.

Original post has gone missing in action.

Contacted KTi who advised they have a delay of another 3 months.
Could't wait so purchased to GME MT410G from Whitworth Marine for $599.

[golfosca]

WARNING!
The GME MT410G sounds just great, and I've just bought two... only to be advised by GME's marketing manager that although they are advertised as buoyant, and do float, they float on their side so that the antenna will not function. As the marketing manager puts it, they have to be supported by hand so that the antenna is clear of the water. Jeez :swim

[Nicko]

It's a PLB, which means to me it's suppose to be attached to you in some way either by hand or by pocket not free floating as your boat sinks. But thanks for letting everyone know that if they want an EPIRB for a boat they buy the boat version :hatoff

[Nicko]

I just got an email from an informed Next Destination staff member that:

"quote"
Just reading your posts on the PLB's and thought I would let you know that the Kannad XS-3 406 PLB floats with the antenna upright and will self right, we have tested it ourselves and it has been confirmed by Kannad. It also has a lanyard that you can attach to your life jacket or wrist.

The Kannad PLB may cost a little more but if your life depends on it I guess that it's worth it.

"unquote"

Well apparently the KTi PLB is in the same boat :) as the GME unit, floats but on it's side.

[Nicko]

I just received details on what Kannard's official comment is regarding their battery specifications:

"The transmission duration is given for 24 hours in the worst situation : close to the battery expiration date (self-discharge of the battery), at -20°C (battery voltage lower), and taking into accounts that periodic self-tests may have drained a
certain amount of the battery autonomy.

If not all these parameters have been reached, the autonomy will be more than 24h. For a new battery at ambient temperature, it will probably be several days. However
our only commitment is to respect the minimum requirement. We cannot commit on an average transmission time at average temperature.

Best regards

Bruno Poyti
Safety beacons Customer Support"

If anyone has a Kannard and let's one off, please let us know how you went :)

[photohiker]

Spoke to KTI today.

"Not before May"

Might have to go the GME then...

[pelorus32]

I just spoke with KTI - "Not before late June...it didn't get COSPAS-SARSAT certification, it's nearly there".

Regards

Mike

[Nebabindere]

Ive got KTi in my aircraft fleets emergency kits, wouldnt use any other make, i think i paid 550 each for 12 of them

[Minaska]

I am organising for a trip to the remote Diamantina NP and other less remote NP's in SW Queensland in June and needed a PLB (along with other items including a UHF radio). After reading Niko's excellent review I decided on the KTi (with GPS) as first preference & GME 410G as second preference.

The GME 410G units have been out of stock at any places in Brisbane quoting less than "extortionate" prices. The KTi units are STILL shown on the KTi website as "awaiting COSPAS SARSAT approval" and no indication as to when they will become available. So, I decided to order the GME410G from Whitworths Marine & Leisure who offered the best price in Brisbane - $599 and I picked it up today - they appear to have a few in stock now. I did check Niko's on-line shop but could not see any unit listed.

I did consider the SPOT device but decided against it on two points - It is not really up to the standard required for "Absolutely must work" in an emergency situation and another review I found indicated that the GPS receiver in this unit was fairly low sensitivity and appeared to be much like the "old technology" GPS units that would not work in heavy tree cover.

I hope these comments will help other forum members

Minaska

[photohiker]

I spoke to KTI about a month ago, they were not too hopeful about a release date. Maybe June, but don't hold your breath...

Michael

[GoWhere?]

Just rang Whitworths... out of stock :-(

[northernangler]

Funny how the price of the latest EPIRB's jumped from around $400 to over $500 when their use became law. Price of GME unit up north is close to $600.00 now.

[Nicko]

KTI are now saying August. The Australia dollar didn't help their cause but what also isn't helping their cause is the inability to meet the demand.

[Nicko]

KTI are saying that had to make changes to the device due to COSPAS-SARSAT modifying specification recently. Manufacturing is said to be at the end of September 2009.

[GPS_Tango]

email received from KTi on 07 Aug 09 said:

"Thank you for your patience with this product. We have unfortunately been delayed by modifications required to meet recent changes to the COSPAS-SARSAT standard. We have recently re-submitted samples for approvals testing and our current outlook is for release late October 2009.
Regards,
Mark Knowles,
Manager.


Looks like I'll have to go for something else for my trip late September - probably a GME

Tango

[Muck]

This PLB is also available in Australia.
The web site is
http://www.fastfindplb.com

You can read a review at:
http://www.equipped.com/McMurdoNewFastFind.htm

My issue is how it can retail in the USA for about $350 aussie
but becomes $699 by the time it lands here in Australia.
I'm not quite sure why the price doubles...

[leonh]

do you think it worth while to purchase a plb overseas at about half price. would they work here and what are the disadvantages
leon

[darylr]

Hi Leonh

Read post #7 in this thread and it will answer your question.

regards

Darylr

[leonh]

I guess my question is will it work here rather then registration process, i guess most of them advertise that they work anywhere in the world. For example last week i was sailing in malaysia with my brother and then the week before that walking in switzerland in the mountains. so obviously one can't have it registered everywhere. But i want it "mostly" for hiking in australiain the mountains. but it seems that the cost of some of them are about double their aussie price in the us It seems we are being overcharged
leon

[Nicko]

You can hire a SPOT for $50 for one month

[Muck]

To answer leonh, it will work in Australia.

If the PLB is activated then an alert is sent to both the rescue centre responsible for the region in which the PLB was activated and a second notification is then sent to rescue centre where the PLB is registered.

Unfortunately the PLB gets given a unique country code which means it can not be registered elsewhere.

My only suggestion is to purchase from a country that allows on-line registration using the International 406MHz Beacon Registration Database www.406registration.com

You will find details on countries that allow on-line registration at www.cospas-sarsat.org/ibrd/countries.htm

Alternatively you could ask AMSA why they do not allow PLB's to be registered on the International Database. AMSA appears to expect you to get your PLB re-coded instead......

[Nicko]

Alternatively you could ask AMSA why they do not allow PLB's to be registered on the International Database.

That is a very good question indeed. I would like to know.

[photohiker]

So, if I buy an Aussie PLB and take it overseas, what is the scenario in the event of an activation?

Michael

[Muck]

I'll just quote AMSA on this:

"If an Australian-coded distress beacon is activated overseas, an alert will be sent to the Rescue Coordination Centre responsible for the region in which the distress incident is occurring. A
second notifcation is then sent to RCC-Australia as the registrar for the beacon. "

Hopefully the two RCCs then exchange information!

[leonh]

thanks for that so it seems that they will work anywhere in the world
leon

[GNSS]

Alternatively you could ask AMSA why they do not allow PLB's to be registered on the International Database. AMSA appears to expect you to get your PLB re-coded instead......

No difference between PLB and Epirb registration. Activation of either will first go through to the country registered.

[GNSS]

GPS accuracy
KTi up to 1 metre* (16 channel GPS engine StarFire III) suspect same as all others of around 100 to 150m.
GME <100m (16 channel GPS engine)
Kannad <120m (12 Channel)
ACR <100m (12 Channel)
Pains Wessex <150m (12 Channel)

*Detection accuracy (CEP50).



1 metre Detection accuracy?

What might they be trying to say? 1 metre ????

Actually there is NO GPS Epirb made by any manufacturer that can claim positional accuracy much less than about 150 metres. This has absolutely nothing to do with type of GPS engine, antenna or number of channels, it is a function of the Cospas-Sarsat data specifications.

[Nicko]

Why do you think I put the comments that I did in brackets? Please contibute rather than just reply to create arguements, thanks

[GNSS]

Why do you think I put the comments that I did in brackets? Please contibute rather than just reply to create arguements, thanks

Sorry I am not a mind reader so how about next time explaining why you put comments in brackets, frankly brackets could mean anything.

As for contributing well if clarification is not contributing then I am not sure what is. Facts should not create arguments unless there is an agenda here?

[photohiker]

Sorry I am not a mind reader so how about next time explaining why you put comments in brackets, frankly brackets could mean anything.

As for contributing well if clarification is not contributing then I am not sure what is. Facts should not create arguments unless there is an agenda here?

GNSS, if you read the whole thread (and the Spot threads) it's pretty obvious that this community is very aware of the technolgies involved and their relative capabilities. It is quite plain to me and probably others here that the comment about the 1m accuracy "suspect same as all others of around 100 to 150m." has been added by Nicko.

You are coming into the discussion late (months or even years) and trying to stir the pot.

There is probably very little you can add, but if you have something to add, please do so, but don't drag up old posts and try to tear them to bits.

If you read the history, you will see that I am no a big Spot fan, but I am thinking of getting one of the new V2 units for my family's benefit. It's not a PLB, and a PLB is not a Spot. Both have valid uses. Get over it.

Michael

[leonh]

i have ordered the gme from whitworths, they seem to be the cheapest, $629 + postage. my local camping world wanted $900 odd for it so I could not buy it off them, i decided it was worth supporting the australian made brand with registration here. kti have not been able to produce one or give a reliable date of delivery. the fast find which may be a better model is available from the usa for $us299.00 which is pretty tempting with the aussie so high
thanks for your help
leon

[Bug's]

I ahve been closely looking at epirb as well. I look at gme model 410 for $499 and 410 model with gps for $589.

I would not pay $900 either.

[leonh]

where did you see the $589.00 model?

[Bug's]

This was on the net but have been looking at so many different sites lately can not find it at the moment.

If i find it again will let you know.

[Bug's]

Found it but not sure if I allowed to include name here so have sent you a private message.

[segref]

As of yesterday KTi are quoting mid January as their taget release date but there is no guarantee of this.
P.s Thank you for the comprehensive comparison of the available Aussie units.

[Nicko]

GME Electrophone $175
KTI EPIRB $140 approx PLB $100 approx
Kannard $399
ACR EPIRB $370 approx SART $236 PLB no price as yet
Pains Wessex Free replacement after 5 before 10 years, after 10 years no price as yet.

[leonh]

i guess those prices are for battery replacement??
thanks
leon

[Nicko]

yes or replacement

[GBD]

Nicko, nice summary of devices thanks very much. :)

Do you know of / have any details on their various depth ratings or IP ratings.

The research I've done seems to indicate that the GME are only 1M submersion whereas some others are claiming 5M and 10 metres for certain time periods.

I'm looking at 5 or 6 PLB's for crew on a racing yacht and as we'd be at sea in rough conditions when we'd expect their use may be required, I'm thinking that 1M submersion will be easily exceeded when a big wave thumps into us as we are swimming around hoping for a rescue.


Great forum folks and I look forward to a being a contributing member where I can add value.

[GBD]

I've been doing a bit of research and here is what I've been able to determine so far based on reviews of web sites and brochures.

In my situation I'm looking for a PLB with the following qualities to suit sailing - immersion, small size to fit into my lifejacket, a strobe and long battery life.

Approved for use in OZ.
http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/beacon-models.html


Made in Australia - to support our country
Integrated GPS
waterproof and good submersion capabilities
Strobe/LED flasher
Light weight
Small in size / volume cm3
Longest battery life = lower cost per year before battery renewal
Price - balanced by the above


Optional Features
Floats on it's own without a pouch

And so far - based on the above

And happy to be corrected if I've misread something or got it wrong.

KTI 406 GPS - Available for sale in Jan 2010
AUS
Sat Channels ??
Strobe
10 year battery life
10 yr warranty
Floats on Side
3 metres immersion
240g 368cm3 125mm 84 35 $649

GME 410G
AUS
Sat Channels 16
Strobe
7 years battery
7 years warranty
Floats on Side
1m immersion
250g 359cm3 135mm 70 38 $570

ACR Aqualink 406
Indications are that the resqfix 406 may become discontinued
USA
Sat Channels 66
5 year batt
5 year warranty
Strobe LED
Floats
10M for 10 mins
257g 323cm3 149.4mm 37.8 57.2 $699

Kannad 406 XS3 PLB
AUS
Sat Channels 12
6 Years Batt
5 warranty
Floats Upright
295g 523cm3 132mm 88 45 $670

McMurdo Fastfind 211 GPS
UK
Sat Channels 50
Strobe LED's
5 batt life
5 warranty
Sinks - Needs Pouch
10M for 10 Mins
150g 169cm 106mm 47 34 $580
Size does not include pouch size.

So no real surprises - the smallest one has the shortest battery life and has no air in it to float - but it is also very light.

[PaulH]

Thanks for all the good info in this thread.

May I suggest that two factors would be helpful in any single PLB review (or comparison).

(a) Can a lanyard be securely attached to the device ?
(b) Does the antenna require deployment (unfolding) ?

I conjecture that 50% or more of EPIRB or PLB use (actual Australia/NZ rescues) is marine in nature. In those cases, there is significant risk of being in a PFD and in the water while using the device – ie: not just sitting in a disabled vessel or in a life raft. In this case, the risk of becoming separated from the PLB is worth mitigating.

As a sea kayaker, this risk is very evident; but I also have many years of sailing & power-boat use and I believe it is relevant to these communities also.

While it is nice that a PLB floats, it would be mad not to have it attached to you. Put another way, I’d reject any PLB that has no lanyard attachment point; but with it tied to me, I don’t much care if it floats.

The antenna unfolding issue is something that distinguishes PLBs from handheld VHFs or GPS units which all have internal or fixed antennae. In use, they have the same shape and form-factor as when stored. If I carry a PLB in a pocket or pouch on my buoyancy aid or wet-weather gear, will it fit back in that pocket when activated ? Or will it need to be hand-held for 24 hours ?

If the unit can be activated while in a waterproof case (eg: Aquapac), then this may solve the lanyard problem (as it does for an Etrex, for example). However, if deployment means that the PLB doubles in size (with antenna unfurled) then the bag cannot be used successfully – just when you need it most.

Specifically for maritime use, I feel that a brief comment on these two capabilities would be useful in considering the usefulness of a PLB model.

Regards
Paul

[Nicko]

I will ad those two requests to the first post, thanks. :hatoff

[LesF]

G'day. I am new to this forum so here goes.

I need a bit of help. I am after a PLB for my son who is heading into the Southern Oceans in Jan 2010. I looked at this site and decided to buy a KTI unit. It appears they are still not on the shelf. As my son leaves mid Jan, does anyone have an update on a release date.
If it is not available which of the products would you recommend. I think the GE looked good, but unsure if the floating sideways would be a big problem. I'm sure if it was me, I would hold the thing vertical as if my life depended on it.
Thanks for any replies. My name is Les.

[Bug's]

Why bother with PLB, get him grab bag and shove a proper Epirb in bag :swim

[GBD]

Grab bags are good.

But they are not very useful if you fall off the bow at 1am and your tether breaks :mighty

A PLB attached to your jacket PFD is in that instance is a good option . ;)

As for recommending a PLB
You need to decide from the approved ones in the areas you are going through - and work out what suits you best.

[LesF]

Thanks for the replies, but it looks like he prefers to wait until the TLI is available. He seems to be covered for this trip.

[tyeates]

Hi Nicko and others,
Awesome site and awesome review.

I am looking for a PLB to take with me sea-kayaking and also in the bush. I am in no major rush so I am hoping to get the KTI.

I just called KTI and the sales rep advised me that they should be out by March.

At first glance that sounds OK; except from reading these posts it appears that it was first scheduled for release in Aug 2008. It was then delayed until Dec 2008; then April 2009; then May 2009; then June 2009; then August 2009; then October 2009; then Jan 2010; and now it is scheduled for release in March 2010.

Has anyone heard any other information about the release date of the KTI?

Cheers,
Tim

[photohiker]

Nope.

Hopefully they won't go broke before the bureaucracy finishes screwing them over.

Michael

[Bug's]

Nope.

Hopefully they won't go broke before the bureaucracy finishes screwing them over.

Michael

Other makers handle bureaucracy ok and have units on sale. Does this indicate unit not up to scratch of the others?

[photohiker]

Other makers handle bureaucracy ok and have units on sale. Does this indicate unit not up to scratch of the others?

I can't really answer that, as I have no behind the scenes access, but my experience in other fields leads me to make a couple of observations:

1. 'The others' were into the approval process early, and had their units on the market before we even heard about KTI.

2. After KTI put their unit in for approval testing, the testing process and/or specifications were changed (perhaps several times) requiring KTI to jump through different hoops than the previous applicants. (KTI have said this to people who have enquired)

Once you involve industry and governments in standards bodies, there is a lot of room for influence where the incumbent manufacturers gain a bit of leverage that helps them block newcomers by tying them up gaining standards approval. I'm not saying that has happened here, just that it sure looks like it.

I wonder if the other units would pass the new testing process and specifications if they were resubmitted from scratch?

This is all supposition based on personal experience, for all I know KTI might be a pack of nongs (but I really doubt it)

Michael

[Nicko]

Point two is correct, there were changes made to the requirements in specifications part way through the approval process, this was stated by KTi to me.

These changes have caused them to redesign their unit which of course means delays in production as well.

The fact that KTi have 406Mhz EPIRBS shows they have the ability to design them and get them to market quickly as they were on the market a year before the old ones were switched off.

Remember, we are talking about PLBs here and not EPIRBS.

[Michael]

An article on why NOT to use the test button:
http://www.sail-world.com/CruisingAus/index.cfm?SEID=0&Nid=65844&SRCID=0&ntid=39&tickeruid=0&tickerCID=0

[Bug's]

Appear some gambling with life with over testing?

Why ACR doing this then?

http://406link.com/

[Nicko]

Nice find bug's, about time the EPIRB manufacturers responded to the SPOT. As you both basically say the same thing, let's drain our battery for frivolous purposes at the cost of battery life. Interestingly at least the spot you can take spare batteries and get indication of battery condition all the time.

[Bug's]

Not good mentioning batteries with regard SPOT(2), have SPOT2 and it's still stuffed :beta

[Nicko]

You are suppose to return it for repair

[Bug's]

You are suppose to return it for repair

That is not information I been sent


Dear Australian SPOT 2 Subscriber

Thank you very much for completing the Voluntary Product Return information. To help serve our Australian customers better, your process will be slightly different that noted in the email you recently received after submitting your SPOT 2 information.

In Australia, upon unit availability in early 2010, customers will be emailed instructions outlining how to exchange your existing SPOT 2 unit for a NEW SPOT 2 unit. Please keep your SPOT 2 unit until this time.

You will not be receiving return shipping materials within 5-7 business days as noted in the previous email.

We appreciate your patience in this matter and look forward to continuing to meet your satellite messaging needs.


Regards
The SPOT Team

[photohiker]

Well, at least you can look at it. :)

Sounds like a right stuff-up. Were you able to activate it and test it, or did you buy it and get locked out of activating it because of the 'voluntary product return'

Michael

[Bug's]

Well, at least you can look at it. :)

Sounds like a right stuff-up. Were you able to activate it and test it, or did you buy it and get locked out of activating it because of the 'voluntary product return'

Michael

Was locked out trying to activate it along with the free bees if activated by 31/12/09 as well as the cash back offer.

Yes a right stuff-up it turned out to be and early 2010 is now starting to look as mid 2010. Sounds like a product being released (for x'mas) well before it was properly tested?

[Jambooi]

Spoke to them today. KTi may perhaps be available in May 2010 :hysterica

[Minaska]

This extract from a recent news item may interest members.

An ABC On-line news item yesterday (17 Feb10) titled "Crackdown on Blue Mountains adventurers" By NSW police reporter Lucy McNally for PM included, at the end of the article, the sentence:

"Personal locater beacons can be borrowed from some local police stations at no charge."


The Search & Rescue authorities have been kept very busy in NSW Blue mountains with 51st rescue job in the last six weeks. The latest rescue was faster because a PLB was used. The local search authorities obviously see the benefits in PLB's and if you are bushwalking / canyoning in this area and desperate to have a PLB available you MAY be able to borrow one from the local police. However, a much better option is to have your own PLB or PERHAPS the new SPOT 2 once the latest "bug" issue is resolved.

I hope this info is useful to forum members.
Regards,
Minaska

[Wahroonga Farm]

Things might be moving OS.

http://findmespot.com/exchange/

[Jambooi]

Latest from KTI

Unfortunately, due to complexities of compliance testing requirements and to circumstances beyond our control, these products will not now be available until early next year. We regret any inconvenience these delays may have caused you.

[mlenser]

Latest from KTI
snip...these products will not now be available until early next year. ...snipDo they mean early 2011???

[photohiker]

Things might be moving OS.

http://findmespot.com/exchange/

I spoke to them yesterday. Sales are about to start up again in the US, and UK is expected to have stock by early April. Australia will be after that sometime.

Must be a corporate disaster to screw up this badly...

Michael

[Javelyn]

Latest from KTI

Unfortunately, due to complexities of compliance testing requirements and to circumstances beyond our control, these products will not now be available until early next year. We regret any inconvenience these delays may have caused you.


I spoke to them yesterday. Sales are about to start up again in the US, and UK is expected to have stock by early April. Australia will be after that sometime.


Can some clarify please - Australia will be sometime after April 2010 or April 2011?

Barry

[richardson]

THE LATEST FROM KTI 19 MARCH 2010

We have received your enquiry regarding the KTI Mini-Sat and KTI Mini-Sat-G Personal Locator Beacons (PLBs).

Unfortunately, due to complexities of compliance testing requirements and to circumstances beyond our control, these products will not now be available until early next year. We regret any inconvenience these delays may have caused you.

THIS PROBABLY MEANS MARCH 2011

SO I GUESS I WILL NEED TO BUY AN ALTERNATIVE

[Nicko]

I hope you all are aware that both KTi and FindmeSpot both are having issues, SPOT is due out April 2010 or so and KTi 2011 sometime. I got mixed up with the link from WF regarding SPOT. SPOT issues should be placed in the SPOT Threads not here.

[Javelyn]

Thanks Richardson.

Barry

[Emilio]

Hi, Nicko,

I live in Spain and intend to buy a PLB for my sailboat, so thank you for your great review. I just have a question about the usage time of the different units, which is obviously an essential fact for these devices.

Usage time is as follows:
KTi 4 days
GME 2 days
Pains Wessex 2 days
ACR min 1 day +
Kannad 1 day +

In the review you state that the GME has 2 days usage time, but I have throughly looked at the specifications on the GME web site and all I can find is: "Duration: In excess of 24 hours at -20°C Longer at higher ambient temperatures." It doesn´t say anywhere (that I could find) that it will operate for two days.

The specifications for the new McMurdo FastFind MaxG do clearly state it will last minimum 48 hours (however, it has no strobe).

The GME looks like a great PLB, but how can I make sure it does have 2 days real usage time?

Thank you for your help.

Emilio

[Nicko]

From personal knowledge on the GME products, having worked for them I am aware of the normal usage time. The reason why many manufacturers say 1 day+ is because they are covering their "backsides" if the unit fails before the second day then they are avoiding possible lawsuit.

[Emilio]

Thank you for your answer. Best regards.

[Bug's]

Best wording probably "Tested Life" xx hours

Does PLB need more than 24 hours? For sailboat would not you be better with Epirb?

[Smouch]

I would say preferable to more than 24 hours because.... if you sink/fall overboard because of extremely poor weather, there is a good chance a helo may not be able extract you until that cyclone or such passes or..... If your outside a helos range and need rescue from a ship that could take an extended period. I would rather rely on something I have in my hand than something an aircraft may be able to drop to me.

I have been waiting patiently for KTi but with it now at least another 12months away ill get something else to tide me over and then palm it off to a relative or something.

[Bug's]

And that is why I say Epirb over PLB for sailboat use as PLB does not like working in water, does not float good and not as water proof as purpose built Epirb

[Smouch]

True but I normally carry a PLB in my life jacket even-though there are 2 epirb's onboard

[mbola]

your paid 550 each...