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Wahroonga Farm
16th December 2008, 01:59 PM
Hi,

Does the Hema Nav feature the latest full GeoScience Natmap 250k mosaic map .... and if not ... why not?

Hema Navigator (http://www.hemanavigator.com.au/hema_navigator_topographical_gps_hema_maps.html) maps page.

The 'Hema Australia 4WD Raster Map Collection 2008 Edition 3', I had a recent squiz at, has decidely poor 250k resolution in comparison to the 'real McCoy'. An older release .... and maybe too much compression.

And no full mosaic. Just the Aussie map 'slices' in seperate overlapping files.

http://www.hemanavigator.com.au/images/hema_maps_key_map_regions.jpg

And for an extra 'spit in your eye', many of the 'detailed' Hema maps are poorer than 1:250k? 'Cape York' for example is dreadful.

http://www.hemanavigator.com.au/images/hema_key_maps.jpg

The Explorer
16th December 2008, 05:59 PM
Hello
I donít have latest and greatest 250K mosaic but the one I do have is 32 metres per pixel. The "sliced" Hema version is 45 metres per pixel, so there is difference in that respect (i.e. less resolution)...so this explains the noticeable difference when viewing on screen though not sure I would rate it as significant, after all it is a 250K map (i.e. does it matter? not sure myself).

If the reduction in resolution was deliberate suggest it was to ensure all the data supplied on the SD card (2GB) with the Hema Navigator would fit. A good place to get a direct response straight from the horseís mouth on the Hema Navigator is here..

http://gpsoz.freeforums.org/hema-navigator-f5.html

Pop a few questions...may shed more light on your questions

RE: Cape York map...
A 1,000,000 scale map, so comparing it to the Natmap 250,000 scale map is likely to provide some opportunities for criticism. Other issues to be considered are the target audience and intended purpose of the map. The map was created for a totally different purpose to the Natmap 250K so no surprise there is a different result.

Same applies to all the Hema Maps Ė keep in mind the scale and intended use/audience and research prior to purchase. I donít think Hema map department promise something they donít deliver but havent read all their promotial stuff.

Cheers
Greg

Wahroonga Farm
16th December 2008, 06:11 PM
Groan.

Not another forum. :)

No critisism of the Hema maps, and as you say they have an audience and usefulness.

I guess it's there application to a moving map navigator that I was querying. Applying low resolution maps to a moving map device, is of little use. IMHO.

Do the customers know what they are getting?.

How do I measure metres per pixel, and I'll let you know what the latest 250k mosaic is?

Nicko
16th December 2008, 06:25 PM
As far as Hema Maps are concerned, it is purely a digital version of a paper map and of course when you zoom in to high scale say 1km the pixalation is horrendous.

I also find that OziExplorer is not a very simple program to use for a beginner and does require many hours of painfull study or GPS training.

Ideally for me is topo map software that is reasonably accurate and based on vector mapping.

Would I personally buy the Hema navigator? no. Would I sell it? yes. Why? Because there isn't much else out there worth buying except for Magellan, but the problem with Magellan is the proprietary format. If Magellan had comparable prices I would highly recommend Magellan.

The Explorer
16th December 2008, 07:12 PM
Groan.

Not another forum. :)

No critisism of the Hema maps, and as you say they have an audience and usefulness.

I guess it's there application to a moving map navigator that I was querying. Applying low resolution maps to a moving map device, is of little use. IMHO.

Do the customers know what they are getting?.

How do I measure metres per pixel, and I'll let you know what the latest 250k mosaic is?

No worries

My take on the scene is that Hema Navigator is plug and play device for a target audience. Suspect some who purchase are on to it (and plan on using it with better maps) and some are happy with capabilities as is. There is no restriction on just using maps supplied. I have a Mio (~same device) and rarely use Hema maps or the 250K maps unless there is no other option, so I agree - little value in low res (assume you mean low scale) maps in general but in some areas of Aus there is no better option, plus you can never have enough maps as the all have the potential to provide info not found on another map set.

To determine resolution of a map in OziE click on INFO icon (4th from right along top of screen)

Cheers
Greg

The Explorer
16th December 2008, 08:18 PM
As far as Hema Maps are concerned, it is purely a digital version of a paper map and of course when you zoom in to high scale say 1km the pixalation is horrendous.

I also find that OziExplorer is not a very simple program to use for a beginner and does require many hours of painfull study or GPS training.

Ideally for me is topo map software that is reasonably accurate and based on vector mapping.

Would I personally buy the Hema navigator? no. Would I sell it? yes. Why? Because there isn't much else out there worth buying except for Magellan, but the problem with Magellan is the proprietary format. If Magellan had comparable prices I would highly recommend Magellan.

IMHO the best topo map software would use both raster and vector data (and it does)..couldnt live without airphotos. Donít be fooled into thinking the nice clean image some vector data provides equals accuracy (e.g. zoom in on a 250K vector image and see how far off the defined road you are - may as well be pixelated). There is also a limitation in popular GPS brands with respect to vector line types, clours etc. Try making a vector version of a geology map (for example) that could be used with currently available handheld gps units - not possible - too many colors, symbols and line types required.

GIS programs such as Arcview, Mapinfo etc do the job combining vector and raster data. OziExplorer has pretty good capabilty to use "vector" data in the form of tracks and waypoints overlain on the raster data and it is a good economic alternative to the more expensive products in the pocket PC market plus has wide user base. No idea if it is harder to learn than other programs available. Best way to learn is one on one.

Cheers
Greg

Dooghan
17th December 2008, 02:11 AM
Try making a vector version of a geology map (for example) that could be used with currently available handheld gps units - not possible - too many colors, symbols and line types required.I would have to disagree. I recon you do it with a Garmin GPS. There isn't any part of a Garmin map you can't customize now days and make it look the way you want. You can even access unused parts of the memory to create new or more points, lines or polygons.

Wahroonga Farm
17th December 2008, 04:00 AM
.....To determine resolution of a map in OziE click on INFO icon (4th from right along top of screen)
Cheers
GregAnother mystery solved. Thanks Greg. Now I guess I know how Ozi determines 'best map'. However I reckon there's quite a difference in 45 to 32 pixels per metre. So I still suspect folk are getting short changed with the Hema Nav package.

I'm certainly happy with the latest Natmap 250k for minimal feature landscapes ... like most of Aus. It equals Shonky's maps for accuracy and has superior detail.

However having said that, you really need 25k raster mapping for the East coast 'busy topo' areas.

Les Addison
17th December 2008, 08:48 AM
I must admit I am not happy with the mapping on mine and glad someone else has brought this up, I am struggling with Ozi to attempt to get better maps for it. Having been a Magellan user in the past I would like to able to have the quality and versatility of map detail as you zoom in. I understand there is a target for these things but at their price I would have expected better. Memory Map is a waste of space as it uses the same Hema maps, if want better mapping from them it costs you even more money. Another gripe is Route 66. Is there a better all round system and how can I install it?. I must admit the after sale service is great and has to be worth considering. Les

Wahroonga Farm
17th December 2008, 11:35 AM
Now in a way I'm writing this as a bit of a diary, as I find stuff out. It may be useful for some other 'lost soul'. So please take it all with a grain of salt.

A number of the small region Hema maps offer reasonable resolution and local information. However they were developed as paper maps .... and probably should stay that way :).

Now remember the latest 2008 Natmap 250k mosaic (all of Aus) is 32m/pixel.

The lower the m/pixel figure the better.

So back to the Hema Navigator, included mapset.

Fraser Island, Mount Remarkable are around 16m/pixel

Keep River, Mt Augustus are 19m/pixel

Vic High country East and West are 25m/pixel

There's a couple around 32m/pixel (same as the Natmap 250k) and the rest are way over that.

So in general the latest Natmap 250k series will provide better map detail of Australia, with the exception of the few small region maps identified above.

So where do you go for better, higher resolution, raster based, digital topographic maps for Australia?

If your into adventurous east coast stuff (by car or foot), you really should be looking at 1:25k or there-abouts.

Firstly there's Festy's fabulous 2 x DVD set. It covers all of Vic at 1:50K, much of NSW at 1:25K, all of of NSW at 100k plus Tasmania at 25k, 100k and 250k plus all Tasmanian towns down to 1 or 2 m/pixel. It's already in ozf2 ready for your OziCE GPS/PDA. Visit the Victoria maps section.

Note: 25k delivers an impressive 3 - 4m/pixel resolution.

I'm not sure what Nicko's shop has on offer.

Then you could try Maptrax (1:25,000 stuff is available for many areas) and Rooftop maps (but that's for a pretty small special use area).

Or make your own, from a number of paper and electronic sources

Or keep on contributing to OSM. It'll get there ... :)

The Explorer
17th December 2008, 12:36 PM
snip ...So where do you go for better, higher resolution, raster based, digital topographic maps for Australia?

If your into adventurous east coast stuff (by car or foot), you really should be looking at 1:25k or there-abouts.

Firstly there's Festy's fabulous 2 x DVD set. It covers all of Vic at 1:50K, much of NSW at 1:25K, all of of NSW at 100k plus Tasmania at 25k, 100k and 250k plus all Tasmanian towns down to 1 or 2 m/pixel. It's already in ozf2 ready for your OziCE GPS/PDA. Visit the Victoria maps section.

Note: 25k delivers an impressive 3 - 4m/pixel resolution.

I'm not sure what Nicko's shop has on offer.

Then you could try Maptrax (1:25,000 stuff is available for many areas) and Rooftop maps (but that's for a pretty small special use area).

Or make your own, from a number of paper and electronic sources

Or keep on contributing to OSM. It'll get there ... :)

There are also these commercial products

Westprint Outback Tracks - similar to Hema GDT

http://www.westprint.com.au/Product%20Pages/australiasoutbacktracks.htm

They also have a digital version of their Holland Track (WA) paper map ready for use with OziExplorer

Meridian Maps have these

The Otways - 4WD Map
Sydney Adventures- 4WD Map
Wombat State Forest - 4WD Map
Victoria's Deserts - 4WD Map

http://www.meridianmaps.com.au/products_images/product_links/cd_roms/otways_4wd_cd.asp

Australian TopoView Raster 2006 maps produced by the LPI of NSW

TopoView Raster 2006 maps on DVD are exact digital copies of the NSW Lands Department's topographic maps. They cover the whole of NSW and vary in scales from 1:100,000 (Western Region), 1:50,000 (Central NSW) and 1:25,000 (Eastern NSW)

http://www.octapc.com.au/category401_1.htm

Qld: Sunmap Raster CD contains all the available 1:25,000 scale topographic maps as georeferenced ECW images. Covers South East Queensland and some other major towns. These maps can be imported into OziExplorer.

http://www.nrw.qld.gov.au/property/mapping/sunmap_raster.html

Digital nautical charts

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/19349.asp#Digital

http://www.hydro.gov.au/seafarer/geotiff/geotiff.htm

Tasmania - TASMAP raster map

http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/
http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/docs/RasterCosts_2003.pdf

West Oz Maps

Kimberley 50K
Pilbara 50K
South West WA 50K
South West WA 25K
South Coast WA 100K
West Coast WA 100K
Gold & Ghosts 100K (Geology and historical maps)

http://www.exploroz.com/Shop/Maps/Digital_Mapping/Greg_Harewood/Default.aspx

South Aust
Scanned 1:50 000 Topographical map series

http://www.environment.sa.gov.au/mapland/more_topomap.html

All of Australia 250K Geology maps

http://www.geoscience.gov.au/bin/mapserv36?map=/public/http/www/geoportal/250/index.map&mode=browse&layer=map250&queryon=true

That should keep you busy

Cheers
Greg

Nicko
17th December 2008, 12:42 PM
otherwise pick out what you want from Explorers list and I will sell them to you ;)

The Explorer
17th December 2008, 12:54 PM
otherwise pick out what you want from Explorers list and I will sell them to you ;)

Sorry mate - I didnt see most in your shop list ....are they there or are you working on that?

Cheers
Greg

Nicko
17th December 2008, 12:58 PM
working on it, it's hard to keep up with what's available, but I am certain to be able to source them all from only a couple of suppliers

4X4
17th December 2008, 02:51 PM
Here is a good one for Victoria, it includes Melways.
http://maptrax.com.au/p/469619/spatial-vision---vicmap-book---interactive-dvd.html