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arthurking83
8th January 2006, 08:58 AM
Not too sure myself where to post this, but here goes!.........

I'm considering getting Ozi3D.
One thing that I'm curious about, when you load the SRTM or DEM data, is that set for a particular map, or is it a Ozi-wide setting for all maps that Ozi uses.

ie. If I load elevation data for the Natmap map set, does Ozi3D then use this info for all maps that are within the Natmap co-ordinate set, or do I have to load separate elevation data for the NSW topo, and some of the streetdirectory maps.....etc?

This doesn't appear to be explained clearly :confused:

It would make sense that, if you have elevation data for an area between 37/144 , 38/144, 37/145, and 38/145, then it will display for any map within those boundaries??

cheers.

mitchofsutho
8th January 2006, 09:29 AM
The DEM data is for a coordinate not a map image. So it will work with all map images.

The DEM data can be purchased in 3, 9 and 18 Second formats. I have the three formats and the 9 second format is probably the most useful and accurate.

arthurking83
8th January 2006, 11:14 AM
Thanks Mitch,

exactly as I hoped!

So all you need to do is load the elevation data into a folder in Ozi3D and away you go!

:)

mitchofsutho
9th January 2006, 08:08 AM
Thanks Mitch,


So all you need to do is load the elevation data into a folder in Ozi3D and away you go!

:)

Not quite that easy. As you are probably aware, Ozi3d is an add on to OziExplorer, so it will not run alone.

I purchased the 9 Second DEM CD for about $100. Much less hassel and time wasting than downloading it.

Follow these step and you should not go wrong:


You must have installed OziExplorer (PC version).
Install Ozi3D.
The DEM data should be stored under a folder named "Elevation Data" under the C:\....OziExplorer folder. This should be created first. In fact when Ozi3D installs, this folder is normally created and some sample DEM data is loaded. If this is the case, and you are ready to load 9 Second DEM, delete the sample data from the Elevation Data folder.
Insert the CD.
Loaded onto the CD is an application file called "Decant".
Double click on "Decant" and it will open the application.
In the "Pick area to download" field, you will see a list of the 37 regions which make up Australia and are covered by 9 Second DEM.
Click on the first entry and then scroll to the bottom of the list, Hold Shift and Click on the last entry, which is probably 'Sydney'. The entire list should now be highlighted.
Click "OK"
A new window titled "Output File Information" will open. It is importent the fields in this window are correctly marked.
The "Output Format" should be marked as "GRIDASCII".
I assume you are using a PC, so the "Target O/S" field should be marked "DOS-Windows".
Click "OK".
In the "Select Drive" field, select the drive you are going to store the data. Read the next step first.
In the "Directory" field select the directory you are going to store the data. From experience, I have found that on occasions, if the OziExplorer\Elevation Data folder is selected, at times Decant does not place the data in the directory. I don't know why this occurs, but it may have something to do with the number of folders in the path.
To avoid having to go though the process more than once and to ensure the converted data is stored on my hard drive first time, every time, I point Decant to load the data in a C:\Temp folder. Once the process is completed and the data converted, which will take some time as each of the 37 region files have to be converted, I just move the converted data in the C:\Temp folder to the C:\...OziExplore\Elevation Data folder. I've never had any problems using this method.
Okay, the data is now converted and in the C:\...OziExplore\Elevation Data folder. Now you have to tell OziExplorer 3D where to locate the data.
If OziExplore and OziExplorer 3D have been installed correctly, open OziExplorer.
On the Customised Toolbar, you should see a number of new buttons with 3D written on them. These are the buttons for the Ozi3D software. If the 3D buttons are not visible, use the Customise Toolbar function under the File Menu to load the 3D buttons. All the 3D buttons are prefixed "3D -", just scroll down until you find them and then add the buttons you need.
Click on the "Elevation Control" button (the one with a spanner). A new window named "Elevation Control" will open.
Under the System Tag, tick "Use Elevation Data".
If you want smoothed elevated topography, tick "Filter Elevation". If you want stepped, leave it unticked. Once set up, have a play around with the settings.
Click on the "DEM File Paths" tag.
You will now see a number of fields under the title "Elevation Data Type and Path".
In the field, "Grid ASCII", Open the folder button the locate the "C:\...OziExplorer\Elevation Data" folder. Select that folder.
The "C:\...OziExplorer\Elevation Data" path should now be shown in the "Grid ASCII" field.
Tick the active box for this field. Ensure all other active boxes are unticked.
Click "Save"
Ozi3D will then scan all the DEM data. This occurs whenever you make a change to any setting in Elevation Control.
Once the scan is completed, you will then be able to access the 3D functions using the 3D Map Control Button.


Have fun.

Craigus
9th January 2006, 08:10 AM
I purchased the 9 Second DEM CD for about $100. Much less hassel and time wasting than downloading it.

I downloaded all the DEM data if you want it I'll post a DVD. Bugger forking $100 for it!

mitchofsutho
9th January 2006, 08:31 AM
Thanks for the offer, but I already have the Cd. I use it for work to provide a 3D visualisation of areas to clients, so ultimately, it has been paid for by someone else.

Craigus
9th January 2006, 08:48 AM
That's alright then :D

Arthur If you want the DEM data let me know.

happpyg
9th January 2006, 10:54 AM
I have downloaded Australia wide DEM data from here if this will help anyone http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/ (version 2)

It actually looks like it covers most of the globe and says it is taken at 3 second (90m) intervals - not sure how accurate this is as I am no expert but does what I want it to do :)

arthurking83
9th January 2006, 02:01 PM
I downloaded the SRTM from NASA too.
and updated the link, in the Mapping sticky about Ozi3D.

I think I have the same v2 data as Happyg.

There accuracy seems to be here and there :confused:
My area seems absolutely spot on, whereas my recent trip to MtBuller, some data seemed out by a bit.
MtBuller is supposed to be 1823m, DAST topo recorded 1828m, but the SRTM data is saying 1788m.

What data do you have Craig?
Is it from Geoscience or NASA?

Ozi3D looks cool! When I find I'm using it more often (which I most like will) I'll register it, but the demo version is OK for now.

I just downloaded the SRTM (.hgt) data, extracted it to a folder, made sure that folder was in the data path in the Config, and it worked perfect first time!

The DEM data would be fantastic, if it's from Geoscience :D

cheers.

Craigus
9th January 2006, 02:07 PM
Gees... Umm.. I don't remember. I think the link was passed on from Festy? He might remember. It was quite some time ago. :(

arthurking83
9th January 2006, 02:29 PM
Just give me one file name, eg 37S145E.hgt, and date created/modified.

cheers.

Craigus
9th January 2006, 03:21 PM
S11E119.hgt - Friday, 2 July 2004, 11:33:02 AM

arthurking83
9th January 2006, 03:32 PM
S11E119.hgt 27-05-2005 3:20PM :D

cheers Craig!

do you want a CD? :D :D

Craigus
9th January 2006, 04:36 PM
Yes please! :eek:

arthurking83
10th January 2006, 05:51 PM
I've been playing around with Ozi3D, getting it to work is easy, but the data is erratic :confused:

I'm using the SRTM version2 from NASA, and it "seems" more accurate than the DEM from Geoscience!

When I say, "seems" more accurate, I'm referencing the data, with the only other topo data I have readily available, and that's the NatMap/Auslig 250K topo maps.

I realise there are inaccuracies involved with any height data, and I'm referencing the "spot height" data shown on the maps, and using the 'spot' preceding the number, on the image as the point of reference.
(this seems to be the way to do it??)

But, comparing the 9 Sec data (this sample data) (http://www.ga.gov.au/nmd/products/digidat/dem_9s.htm#sampledem) downloaded from Geoscience, with the SRTM data from NASA, indicates the SRTM v2 data is "more" accurate.
SRTM seems to be about 30m out, compared to about 68-80m using the 9 Sec DEM.
(the sample data covers the SW corner of the Proserpine_5504 Natmap image)

There is the 3 sec data which is derived from the topo dataset.
This should be dead accurate, when used in conjunction with the 250K topos!! :confused:

How do you know what height data is being used when you have multiple data sets loaded and active?

This is getting fun to play with.......may have to register to play with the larger maps!

:)

festy
11th January 2006, 11:12 AM
"Show elevation display" under "3D/Elevation" menu should tell you the filename that the elevation data is being used from.

mitchofsutho
12th January 2006, 10:26 AM
When I was first looking at acquiring the DEM data from GA, I contacted them about the three products, 3, 9 & 18 Sec DEM. The advised that the 3 Sec was just spot hieghts taken from satilite imagary and no field world or little manual correction was undertaken. They advised that even though the DEM points were further apart then 3 Sec, the 9 Sec DEM for Australia was a lot more accurate, as field checks and manual work had been undertaken to check much of its data.

This could explain the differences in accuracy or readings.

From experience, neither are 100% accurate, due to the distance between data points, you will still see spot heights in valleys and rivers on hills with both 9 and 3 Second DEM. Still, Ozi 3D remains a lot of fun to see a graphic display of the terrain travelled or yet to be traversed.

bluezooky
18th January 2006, 11:07 AM
I have the CD of the 9sec and it seems fine in NSW State Forests but less accurate for other areas such as National Parks.Presumably if you in an area where some regular road building takes place the data been corrected a bit.
The corrected SRTM data basically has the blank spaces filled in,unless your in the USA or something I doubt it's had much real correction.
Regards Charlie

bcasot
19th January 2006, 10:26 AM
After reading this post, it sounds like I would have to dedicate weeks of work to get to know ozi 3d and get it working. Is it worth it or is straight out ozi better? Arthur I noticed on some other posts, you posted some 3d tracks with world wind and I think google earth. Was this done with ozi-3d? :confused:

Thanks everyone, this forum is great.

festy
19th January 2006, 11:22 AM
Think of ozi3d as a little gimmicky add-on for oziexplorer. It in no way replaces ozi, it just makes pretty 3d pictures. It really only takes a few minutes to get to know ozi3d, there's not much to it. You configure which directory your elevation data is in, draw a box around the area you want 3d mapped in oziexplorer, then click a button to make the map.

arthurking83
19th January 2006, 03:13 PM
Festy said it perfectly!

Ozi3D is easy to figure out!
It is gimmicky, that's why I'm still using the trial version. The small maps are fine!
Because of Google and WorldWind, Ozi3D is not really "worth" the expense, and as Ozi outputs to xml, this just makes it easier to view a track in Google.

The 3D tracks I made for WorldWind were straight from the GPS tracklog.
Magellan and Garmin tracks have elevation data in them.
(Some Lowrance GPSr tracks don't!! :mad: )

I have made some Google xml tracks, but these were exported from Ozi to the google xml file. ([Save]-> Export to Google Earth). This is a no brainer!
The WorldWind tracks were for ******** geeks! (maybe easier now??)

Ozi3D could be useful if you want to view the terrain you're about to traverse.
If you're driving the high country, this gimmick could be handy, but if your driving through the Mallee region, you get no benefit!

The trial version works well, (except for some limitations), try it out and judge for yourself.

cheers.

kaffine
5th May 2006, 08:12 PM
Hey All

I've just started learning about Oziexplorer and Oziexplorer3D the .hgt files downloaded have a general effect on the map when converted thru Ozi3d, Is there anyway that a track file can be represented on the map and affect the maps elevation points giving a more accurate representation of the terrain? rather than just dissapearing under the map or over it acually changes the image of the map..


Hope thats not too confusing.. :confused:


Kaff...

arthurking83
5th May 2006, 09:14 PM
..... Is there anyway that a track file can be represented on the map and affect the maps elevation points giving a more accurate representation of the terrain?....


I think you confused me......more than you confused yourself! :D

Actually your GPS elevation profile is more likely to be "less accurate" than the hgt files you're using in Ozi3D???

GPS recievers are notorious for wild elevation changes/accuracy!
(having said that, they can also be very accurate!)

OK...a contradiction..... :o

But the point is that GPSr elevation data can not be relied upon.....even though it can also be very accurate!
It's got to do with how accurate the data is over a certain time/period...etc

(in fact, just yesterday, I saw my Meridian at some ridiculous elevation...something like 224 meters, when I knew it should have been about 20 meters or so!!)

Now I've confused myself!
I hope I didn't confuse you as much as you confused me! :p

And I'm not aware of any way to use the track elevation to "calibrate" Ozi3d maps????

There is something known as DEM elevation data from Geoscience(the Natmap mob!)
They SELL this elevation data, which is apparently more accurate


:)

mitchofsutho
5th May 2006, 09:47 PM
There is something known as DEM elevation data from Geoscience(the Natmap mob!)
They SELL this elevation data, which is apparently more accurate :)

GA has three versions of DEM elevation data - 3 second DEM (about every 90m square), 9 Sec DEM (about 250m square) and 18 sec DEM 500m square).

In discussions with GA staff I was informed that 3 sec and 18 sec DEM are basically based on hieghts at 3 or 18 sec arcs, based on aerial photographs and no field work is carried out. They advised that the 3 or 18 sec elevation data is based on raw data and not as accurate as the 9 sec DEM data that GA sell on a disk.

9 sec DEM V2 utilises known spot hieghts, stream lines, sink holes and cliff lines, with some field work also having been carried out to verify certain data. The elevation hieght in each 9sec x 9sec cell is the approximate hieght at the centre of the cell. Across Australia, 9 sec DEM has an elevation error of between 7.5m and 20m and in areas of steep and complex terrain, the error can exceed 200m.

Although in therory, one might think that 3 sec DEM would be more accurate being one third the arc of 9 sec DEM, in practice it is not. 9 sec DEM is available for purchase for a cost of about $100 a CD.

That being said, what Arthur stated is partly correct with GPSr sometimes giving inaccurate altitute, but the problem outlined by Kaffine can also be attributed to the diffencies in some of the available DEM data that is used with OziE 3D.

Another issue to consider is that due the the inaccuracy of available DEM data, although it is useful for continental, state and other large areas of land, it is not ideal for smaller areas, which 4x4er tend to cover and used with OziE 3d.

kaffine
5th May 2006, 09:56 PM
oke seems that achieved my goal..hehhee..

I'll try a different tack. when i convert maps to 3D they come out with straight variations of elevation from one longitude or latitude line to another like this
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/kaffine52/trial.jpg

not nice and smooth hills like this

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/kaffine52/fleack2.jpg


what am I doing wrong?

Or is that the difference between 3 sec and 9 sec variance?

kaffine
5th May 2006, 10:11 PM
AHA I think I worked it out. My grid size in pixels was wrong..what a goose am I....

Thanks for the help guys

Kaff...

mitchofsutho
5th May 2006, 10:12 PM
Kaffine,

See my post, it should provide you with the answers to your questions.

The Explorer
7th May 2006, 10:02 AM
Although in therory, one might think that 3 sec DEM would be more accurate being one third the arc of 9 sec DEM, in practice it is not. 9 sec DEM is available for purchase for a cost of about $100 a CD.

Hello are they (GA) talking about their data or 3 sec data in general? I assume this statement is base on the fact that the 3 sec data GA sell has not been processed and field checked (big job!!) as much as the 9 sec data (which they also sell). Use the FREE NASA 3 sec data instead (Version 2)

ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM3/Australia/

Version 2 is the result of a substantial editing effort by the NGA and exhibits well defined water bodies and coastlines and the absence of spikes and wells (single pixel errors), although some areas of missing data (‘voids’) are still present. Version 2 is a superior product (to V1) and it is recommended for most users.

It is as far as I can see much better than the GA 9 sec data. When contours compared between NASA 3 sec data and heights on 50K maps there is a very good correlation. The 9 sec data is sad in comparison. Correct me if Im wrong.

Cheers
Greg

arthurking83
7th May 2006, 10:23 AM
Anyone that want's the SRTM data for all of Aus, and doesn't like the idea of downloading 1000files!

It's now available on the GPSAus NSW topo DVD!

So place your name on the DVD list too!



:)

mitchofsutho
7th May 2006, 10:34 AM
Hello are they (GA) talking about their data or 3 sec data in general? I assume this statement is base on the fact that the 3 sec data GA sell has not been processed and field checked (big job!!) as much as the 9 sec data (which they also sell). Use the FREE NASA 3 sec data instead (Version 2)

ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM3/Australia/

Version 2 is the result of a substantial editing effort by the NGA and exhibits well defined water bodies and coastlines and the absence of spikes and wells (single pixel errors), although some areas of missing data (‘voids’) are still present. Version 2 is a superior product (to V1) and it is recommended for most users.

It is as far as I can see much better than the GA 9 sec data. When contours compared between NASA 3 sec data and heights on 50K maps there is a very good correlation. The 9 sec data is sad in comparison. Correct me if Im wrong.

Cheers
Greg

G'day Greg,

As I haven't used V2, it is difficult for me to comment on the accuracy difference between GA 9sec and 3 sec V2, your comments could be correct. GA has inks and other relevant files at this link (http://www.ga.gov.au/nmd/products/digidat/dem_9s.htm) on their DEM Elevation page that outlines the differences of the products.

The Explorer
7th May 2006, 10:44 AM
Anyone that want's the SRTM data for all of Aus, and doesn't like the idea of downloading 1000files!

It's now available on the GPSAus NSW topo DVD!

:)

Downloading them is easy - click a few buttons and go to bed:) Unzipping them all is the pain!! Is it possible to "batch" unzip?

Cheers
Greg

mitchofsutho
7th May 2006, 10:54 AM
Unzipping them all is the pain!! Is it possible to "batch" unzip?

Cheers
Greg

Good question as all the 1:25K and 1:100K NSW maps on the GPSA disk are individually zipped.

The Explorer
7th May 2006, 10:55 AM
G'day Greg,

As I haven't used V2, it is difficult for me to comment on the accuracy difference between GA 9sec and 3 sec V2, your comments could be correct. GA has inks and other relevant files at this link (http://www.ga.gov.au/nmd/products/digidat/dem_9s.htm) on their DEM Elevation page that outlines the differences of the products.

No worries - being from a rather flat section of WA (south west) I found the 9 sec data uninspiring as suttle contour details just dont show up. 3 sec dat is much better ...dont actually care if its inaccurate - just looks better:). The Kimberley 50K maps are great when combined with 3 sec data due to dramatic terrian.
Cheers
Greg

arthurking83
7th May 2006, 11:23 AM
I only use 7Zip (http://www.7-zip.org/)(free) to unzip!

Does batch zip/unzip type of stuff!

WinRar should uzip all files you load into it!

I Ctrl-A all the rar files and rightclick and unrar them.

I'm guessing Winzip does all this too....just haven't used it for so long!


BTW...did I mention that the latest (v3)SRTM NASA data is exactly the same as the v2!
They must have renamed it v3 when they moved server and directory?
(remember SRTMv2 is on the GPAAus DVD!.....well it is on my copy :) )



cheers.

The Explorer
7th May 2006, 12:04 PM
I only use 7Zip (http://www.7-zip.org/)(free) to unzip!

Does batch zip/unzip type of stuff!

WinRar should uzip all files you load into it!

I Ctrl-A all the rar files and rightclick and unrar them.

I'm guessing Winzip does all this too....just haven't used it for so long!


BTW...did I mention that the latest (v3)SRTM NASA data is exactly the same as the v2!
They must have renamed it v3 when they moved server and directory?
(remember SRTMv2 is on the GPAAus DVD!.....well it is on my copy :) )



cheers.


Thanks...
BTW: Are you confusing the term STRM3 (ie 3 sec STRM data) with version number ? ie /version2/SRTM3/

I can see no Version 3 of the SRTM3 data

Cheers
Greg

arthurking83
7th May 2006, 01:02 PM
DOH! :o


I should have read the link a bit more closely!

The Explorer
7th May 2006, 05:25 PM
DOH! :o


I should have read the link a bit more closely!

The only people who make no mistakes are those who do nothing.
..well thats the excuse I use all the time:)

Cheers
Greg

Pezzie
19th May 2006, 03:02 PM
Did anyone mention that the latest version of Ozi3d will connect you to a height data server and download the relevant files for the map you have open in Ozi?

It's not fast, even on high speed line, but you don't have to work out which files you need. It does that part for you. You can select which form of data to download as well. I don't know if you also need the latest version of OziExplorer as well. But as upgrades for both programs are free it will only cost you the download time.

Pluto
19th May 2006, 04:08 PM
I don't know if you also need the latest version of OziExplorer as well. But as upgrades for both programs are free it will only cost you the download time.. You should be using the latest version. Have a look at the version history. There is a fix for the height data download in 3.95.4m.

stackner
12th September 2010, 05:48 PM
Anyone that want's the SRTM data for all of Aus, and doesn't like the idea of downloading 1000files!

It's now available on the GPSAus NSW topo DVD!

So place your name on the DVD list too!



:)

i want to place my name for it but can not find it lol

stackner
12th September 2010, 05:49 PM
Hello are they (GA) talking about their data or 3 sec data in general? I assume this statement is base on the fact that the 3 sec data GA sell has not been processed and field checked (big job!!) as much as the 9 sec data (which they also sell). Use the FREE NASA 3 sec data instead (Version 2)

ftp://e0srp01u.ecs.nasa.gov/srtm/version2/SRTM3/Australia/

Version 2 is the result of a substantial editing effort by the NGA and exhibits well defined water bodies and coastlines and the absence of spikes and wells (single pixel errors), although some areas of missing data (‘voids’) are still present. Version 2 is a superior product (to V1) and it is recommended for most users.

It is as far as I can see much better than the GA 9 sec data. When contours compared between NASA 3 sec data and heights on 50K maps there is a very good correlation. The 9 sec data is sad in comparison. Correct me if Im wrong.

Cheers
Greg


that link seems to be dead?

The Explorer
12th September 2010, 05:51 PM
that link seems to be dead?


http://dds.cr.usgs.gov/srtm/version2_1/SRTM3/

also you can just use Ozi to download the relevant file for the map you have loaded.

Cheers
Greg