advice request: Etrex vs GPS60
 

G'dday
Having read plenty on the site and elsewhere in working out what unit to buy, I have come to the following:
I want a unit for basic determination of coodinates, holding POI or waypoints (vehicle location, waterpoints for fires, describing locations to others etc), with the ability to put in a grid ref and GOTO etc. Use will be predominantly rural/forest in NE Vic with some use under dense canopy. Mapping sounds good, but I will largely have paper maps at hand, so probably not required. Ability to load POI/grid refs from PC might be useful too.

Thus, I thought the basis yellow Garmin Etrex or the Garmin GPS60.
The 60, it seems gives the option of external antenna, has longer battery life, higher resolution screen and helix antenna (comparing to Etrex). I am told the helix is better for in vehicle, though comments on a UK site are that patch is better if the unit is carried close to th body. It is all a bit confusing.
From discussion in this forum, the 60 series seems to be held in high regard, though most refer to the mapping units. I would appreciate comment on the following:

1. Can anyone comment on satellite aquisition/fixing abilities of the GPS60 (helix antenna) versus Etrex (patch antenna) under forest canopy and open sky? Choice magazine did a recent test of heldhelds and found the GPSmap60 to be the poorest at aquisition, but that does not fit others comments in the forum. Nicko tells me the helix should be better, so not sure why the Choice test results put the 60 down. They do not explain well.

2. Is the reception of GPS60 different to the mapping and colour unit options in the 60 series?

3. Any comments on the GPS60? Are you happy with it? Is it worth the extra $ compared to the yellow Etrex? How do you find it as a unit to carry on foot?

Thanks,
TC67

Very happy with my GPS60.
When I have used it at Lake Mt alongside a friend carrying an Etrex thru some steep tree covered gullies the 60 held reception much better. Loading the tracklogs to Ozi the 60 had more points, evenly spaced & following a steady dirrection.
The points from the Etrex were uneven & zig zagged from side to side of the 60 track.

Do a search for my other posts for more details.
Suggest you get the GPS60, & get OziExplorer for your PC
http://www.gpsaustralia.net/shop/pr...products_id=245
http://www.oziexplorer.com/
http://www.maptrax.com.au/c/150055/1/victoria.html

regards Michael

I just became a member of Choice, something I have been meaning to do for a long time, but the fact they tested handhelds did it for me.

After seeing that they have tested the Magellan eXplorist 400 and 500 with quite varied results gave me an indication they have not done the tests correctly or fairly.

For example the 500 received 81% whilst the 400 received only 74% for ease of use and yet are identical in use. Waterproof for both are identical and yet the 500 got 100% but the 400 only got 50%. All eXplorist models are identical physically, thus even though they showed the results "as is" they didn't indicate this as being a condition that is inconsistent and may have been due to manufacturing fault or for that matter the battery cover not screwed on properly. However they did so with the Lowrance models and received an answer from Lowrance stating it was a bad batch.

From my own personal experience the Magellan GPS engine as opposed to the Garmin engine has always been the lesser performer. However, neither are all that great even compared to the relatively unknown Evermore GPS engine. With the introduction of SiRF III and Mediatek 32 GPS engines this issue will be resolved for all of their models in due course. eXplorist are being replaced by the SiRF III powered Triton series (eXplorist 100 will continue to be available though).

What I struggle with in the report is the simplistic approach to explaining the problems with satellite lock under foliage; detail of the environment would have been helpful to determine what made the ceramic patch antenna perform better than the helix coil antenna. The other issue is that they did not test the GPS in a vehicle and whilst sitting in a cradle on the dash, this is very important as many GPS users do have this setup.

In the cons they gave "small screen" for the Cx range from Garmin and yet not mentioned for the eXplorist series which are identical in area. Another issue was saying that the GPS were compact as a "pro" but the screens were small as a "con", well you can't have it both ways.

One final issue I have with Choice test is that they do mention Google Earth (GE) but don't mention the fact that Garmin has made it an easy one step to fire it up within Mapsource software unlike Magellan software which you cannot.

The test included the following models:

* Garmin eTrex Vista Cx
* Garmin eTrex Legend Cx
* Magellan eXplorist 500LE
* Garmin eTrex Legend
* Garmin GPSMAP60
* Magellan eXplorist 400
* Lowrance iFinder H2Oc
* Magellan eXplorist 210
* Lowrance iFinder Expedition C
* Lowrance iFinder H2O
* Silva Multi-Navigator

Agree re choice
 

Nicko,
I agree... I went into the local library to look at hardcopy of Choice, only to find that the article is online only, so I subscribed online to get what I hoped would be a comprehensive appraisal only to find what I think is pretty superficial and seems to lack depth of knowledge in setting up or explaining their tests.
I emailed them with a few suggestions re any updates they do.
I agree that there is something strange with the differences reported in the performance of units within the same range or with the same hardware. The poor satellite aquisition of the GPS60 was what concerned me, as I was opting for that model. But then, they don't specify how the 40% value they give it (compared to 70-odd, from memory, for the Etrex Vista Cx) is calculated.
There was comment re the failure of some units in the waterproofing test that the manufacturer identified inferior sealant material and they gave company contact telephone for folk with any trouble.

Anyway, the choice article added to the complication, rather than solved it!

tc67

I think that because the Magellan unit is bulker/chunkier, their is an illusion that the screens are bigger, when they are essentially the same size as the Garmin.

If it was me I wouldn't bother looking at anything that didn't have the SIRF III or MTK chipset in them. The new Etrex H model had the MTK in it and is out in the US. It shouldn't be long before it's in Australia. The 60 X models have the SIRF III in them and have been out for a while now. The MTK chipset has the edge over the SIRF III at the moment.

As you don't say any of the above models or chipsets then I would say go for the 60. At least with it you will be able to add an external antenna which will give you a better lock under tree cover then the Etrex.

This was for the Lowrance models

chipsets?
 

Thanks for the help Michael, Nicko, Dooghan.
I did not realise there were different chipsets to consider. The brochures do not comment on that detail. So I take it that the hardware in a GPS60 is different to that in GPSmap60Cx, for example?

The 60cx has a newer and more up-to-date engine in it. It is way more sensitive then GPS60 and gets and holds a better sat lock under tree cover. With a 60cx I could easy get a sat lock inside my house, where as the GPS60 wouldn't have any hope. From what I've read the new Etrex H models are a little bit more sensitive 60 X models and draw less battery power.

For what you want it for I would go for nothing less then a "X" or "H" model. You will not regret it

are all "x" models the same?
 

does the "x" recommendation apply to Etrex X for eg Legend Cx, or just in the 60 series?

Any ideas as to the arrival of H model, and of price?

Seems that you start off looking to spedn $250 and end up heading to $600+.

Cheers,
tc

No!! In the Etrex X models they only added the SD card and kept the old chipset.

Nicko would be able to say. With the AUD being so good at the moment, you could get one from the US at a good price with postage. I've been reading people have being get the Etrex Vista HCX for under $350 AUD including postage from the US. The Vista is the top of the line in the Etrex series.

yeah I can do a deal ;)

I recently bought an Etrex Legend HCX. I purposely didn't buy the vista as I didn't want the hassle of the electronic compass, which needs to be calibrated all the time (I read a few reports of people having hassles).

I think it's accuracy varies. Today I was at Harbourtown on the Gold Coast and the carpark was huge, so I set a waypoint at my car, and then used the gps to lead me back to it. When I got back to my car (same spot) the GPS said I was 10 metres off it still.

I'd hate to have a garmin gps that wasn't H and X, it would be even less accurate.

I've made a bit of observation about garmin products from observing a whole heap of car navigation gps's at shops like **** Smith, JB Hi-fi. It seems to me that all the other brands apart from Garmin have no problems working indoors, the Garmin navigation gps's are always the ones that can't find satellites.

Gee this is sounding quite negative, I don't intend that. I really love my etrex legend hcx, it's a great little unit. I'm just very glad I didn't buy a regular etrex.

you have to remember that the regular etrex came out well before the car navigators with siRF III. In fact many of them (such as Navman) had GPS engines that were just as bad as Garmin or Magellan GPS engines. Ever since SiRF III and MTK 32 (Mediatek32 is what the Garmin H models have in them) came out has GPS been able to improve on a fix in many areas previously impossible to do so. I have been dealing with manufacturers who took on the SiRF II, SiRF II with xTrac and SiRF III well before Tomtom, Garmin , Navman or Mio etc made use of the GPS engines. I infact brought into the country the very first SiRF III engined GPS products into Australia. Having been importing and distributing GPS for 5 years now (but selling GPS since 1995) I have seen the massive acceptance of GPS in everyday life.

TC67, I've currently in my possession a GPS 60 and an Etrex Legend CX - I've had the 60 for ~2 years and just upgraded to the Legend (am going to pass on the GPS60 to my sister who's just getting into geocaching).

They're both good - and to be honest I can't really notice a huge difference in acquisition performance, if there's anything in it it would probably be in the GPS 60's favour. I took the Legend with me today on a walk through the Royal NP (Sydney) and found that it dropped out quite frequently, and in places on a segment of the track I walked two weeks ago where it was faultless. The only difference (other than probable satellite constellation variations) was that I carried the unit today hung around my shoulder, whereas a fortnight ago I had it in the back mesh pocket of my backpack. Moral: keep a clear view of the sky. I almost always carried the 60 on my belt and rarely had issues (only lost sig under trees). I need to get a belt holster or clip for the Legend and I think I'll be right...

I have a car-roof mount external antenna for the 60, which improves performance markedly. I only tested it once (in the car), and the resulting track that had previously been marred with gaps due to tree cover was faultless. I didn't keep it installed as it's a pita to connect/disconnect the antenna plug, particularly when getting in and out of the car.

One other advantage the 60 has is the user interface - with more buttons, it's plain easier to use. The Legend's a bit backwards if you ask me - I keep pressing the wrong ****** button.

I upgraded for a) mapping and b) increased battery life. I can't believe I'm still on my first set of batteries for the Legend!

Oh, and on Choice's test: I know a bloke who's a tester there - seems they always have to simplify, simplify, and simplify to get past the editors for publication. This of course often blurs the results. If you want to know the details of the test, if you write them they may be able to provide more info (or they may have "outsourced" the test to a "subject matter expert". YMMV).

Rgds,
Ben